{"id":196907525,"date":"2011-03-30T00:32:05","date_gmt":"2011-03-30T00:32:05","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/wp.baltimorespokes.org\/?p=196907525"},"modified":"2011-03-30T00:32:05","modified_gmt":"2011-03-30T00:32:05","slug":"aaa-supports-hb-363-but-senator-frosh-is-not-so-sure-manslaughter-by-vehicle-or-vessel-criminal-negligence","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/wp.baltimorespokes.org\/?p=196907525","title":{"rendered":"AAA supports HB 363 but Senator Frosh is not so sure (Manslaughter by Vehicle or Vessel &#8211; Criminal Negligence)"},"content":{"rendered":"<p><big><br \/>\nSenator Frosh has been quoted in the paper saying some things that do not ring true about HB 363 and that needs to be addressed.  Some quotes of Frosh in the Baltimore Sun and Washington Post, what the bill actually says and my comments:<\/p>\n<p>\n<b>Frosh:<\/b> Already approved by the<br \/>\nHouse, a bill that would change<br \/>\nthe law now is in the Senate<br \/>\nJudicial Proceedings Committee,<br \/>\nwhich Frosh chairs. He says the<br \/>\nrush of Senate business has kept<br \/>\nhim from reading it. He plans to<br \/>\nhold a hearing next week but isn\u2019t<br \/>\nsure whether he will ask the committee to vote on it.<br \/>\n\u201cIt depends on what the bill<br \/>\nsays,\u201d Frosh said, \u201cand whether it<br \/>\ncan be fixed and whether they can<br \/>\nthread the needle.<\/p>\n<p><b>B&#8217; Spokes:<\/b> So to be fair he has not read the bill yet so this may be a bit of an over reaction but still his concerns necessitate a response.  <\/p>\n<p>\n<b>Frosh:<\/b> Proponents jubilation at House passage of the bill has been tempered by comments from Sen. Brian E. Frosh, chairman of the Senate Judicial Proceedings Committee, expressing concerns that the law could be used  to jail people over unintentional driving errors.<\/p>\n<p><b>HB 363:<\/b> IT IS NOT A VIOLATION OF THIS SECTION FOR A PERSON TO CAUSE THE DEATH OF ANOTHER AS THE  RESULT OF THE PERSON\u2019S DRIVING, OPERATING, OR CONTROLLING A VEHICLE OR VESSEL IN A NEGLIGENT MANNER<\/p>\n<p><b>B&#8217; Spokes:<\/b> Simple negligence still exists and is purposefully excluded in this bill to address that concern. This bill fills the GAP between simple negligence and recklessness.   <\/p>\n<p>\n<b>Frosh:<\/b> Sen. Brian E. Frosh, chairman of that panel, expressed misgivings about creating an offense carrying a jail term for conduct that was negligent but not intentional or reckless.<\/p>\n<p><b>HB 363:<\/b> THE PERSON SHOULD BE AWARE, BUT FAILS TO PERCEIVE, THAT THE PERSON\u2019S CONDUCT CREATES A  SUBSTANTIAL AND  UNJUSTIFIABLE RISK THAT SUCH A RESULT WILL OCCUR; AND THE FAILURE TO PERCEIVE CONSTITUTES A SUBSTANTIAL DEVIATION FROM THE STANDARD OF CARE THAT WOULD BE EXERCISED BY A REASONABLE PERSON.<\/p>\n<p><b>B&#8217; Spokes:<\/b> Really, someone that drives without the standard of care that would be exercised by a reasonable person and KILLS someone should no way, no how, in all circumstances never face jail time?   <\/p>\n<p><b>Post:<\/b> \u201cFor someone to demonstrate<br \/>\n\u2018substantial negligence\u2019 is higher<br \/>\nthan ordinary negligence but<br \/>\nlower than gross negligence,\u201d<br \/>\nSimmons said. \u201cAt one point I<br \/>\nestimated that there were 30 to<br \/>\n40 [vehicular] homicides that<br \/>\nprosecutors wanted to prosecute<br \/>\nbut couldn\u2019t under today\u2019s high<br \/>\nstandard.<\/p>\n<p>\n<b>Frosh:<\/b> But Frosh said he&#8217;s concerned about imposing harsh penalties on drivers who may have killed others as a result of &#8220;split-second negligence.&#8221; &#8220;Our jails are bursting right now,&#8221; he said. &#8220;To me the jails are a place for people who have done something that is intentional.&#8221;<\/p>\n<p><b>HB 363:<\/b>  A PERSON WHO VIOLATES  THIS SECTION IS GUILTY OF A MISDEMEANOR AND ON CONVICTION IS SUBJECT TO IMPRISONMENT NOT EXCEEDING 3 YEARS OR A FINE NOT EXCEEDING $5,000 OR BOTH.<\/p>\n<p><b>B&#8217; Spokes:<\/b> Split-second negligence??? Cute misdirection but what is he saying? It&#8217;s perfectly fine to take a split second to send a text message thus missing a red light and then killing people as a consequence? Frosh seems to keep referring to simple negligence and the penalty for that is still $500 max.<\/p>\n<p><b>Post:<\/b> To Frosh, that new standard<br \/>\ncould be applied to the mother<br \/>\nwho fatally hits a bicyclist when<br \/>\nshe takes a glance at a crying child<br \/>\nin the back seat of her minivan<\/p>\n<p><b>B&#8217; Spokes:<\/b> First I would like to point out that Frosh has NOT read the bill so his assertion that a glance back is more then simple negligence may not be valid. Next, as a father of five we have ALWAYS pulled off the roadway to deal with the kids. I take exception to the assertion that a mother HAS to be distracted for a split second to deal with kids. As always we trust the courts and juries to do the right thing, if we throw that out the window there is no point to making laws.<\/p>\n<p><b>Overview <\/b><br \/>\n<\/big><\/p>\n<table border=\"1\" cellpadding=\"10\">\n<tr>\n<td><\/td>\n<td>Descending  order of culpability in manslaughter<\/td>\n<td>Simple definition<\/td>\n<td>Explanation<\/td>\n<td>Fines<\/td>\n<\/tr>\n<tr>\n<th>Currently Maryland only has this<\/th>\n<th>Manslaughter<\/th>\n<th>Reckless, gross negligence<\/th>\n<th>High risk and driver knows there is a high risk of death.<\/th>\n<th>Felony, imprisonment not more then 10 years or not more then $10,000 or both. <\/th>\n<\/tr>\n<tr>\n<td>HB 363.will establish this<\/td>\n<td>Negligent homicide (model penal code version)\t<\/td>\n<td>Substantial deviation from standard of care\t<\/td>\n<td>High risk and driver should know there is a high risk of death.  <\/td>\n<td>Misdemeanor, imprisonment not more then 3 years or not more then $5,000 or both.<\/td>\n<\/tr>\n<tr>\n<td>NOT HB 363<\/td>\n<td>Negligent homicide (2 states and DC)\t<\/td>\n<td>Simple negligence; any deviation from standard of care\t<\/td>\n<td>Driver does something where the possible risk times the likelihood of death was greater than the benefits of doing so, and death results. <\/td>\n<\/tr>\n<\/table>\n<p><big><\/p>\n<p><b>B&#8217; Spokes:<\/b> Jail time &#8211; We have jail time for for selling cars without a licence for crying out loud but when it comes to driving in a KNOWN (or should be known) risky way that ends up killing someone, well we&#8217;ll just let that go unchecked because it was not intentional, seriously? (I will also assert one major reason why risky behavior may not seem intentional is because the MVA does such a terrible job in educating drivers about driving risks with only a 20 question test. (Other States have 100 question test.)) But at the end of the day we have to trust the courts and the juries to use this tool properly, we may never see any jail time even for the most grievous of cases as there is nothing mandatory about jail time.[1]<\/p>\n<p><b>B&#8217; Spokes:<\/b> Maximum punishments are there to cover the first time very, very close to recklessness cases. They are also there to cover repeat offenders, in spite of getting numerous tickets, there are some people that still engage in risky behavior that will sooner or later end up killing someone. <\/p>\n<p>\n<b>Frosh:<\/b> Frosh said somebody who kills another through automotive negligence can face harsh consequences in civil lawsuits. &#8220;You can lose your house for that. You can lose your kids&#8217; college fund,&#8221; he said.<\/p>\n<p><b>B&#8217; Spokes, In Conclusion:<\/b><br \/>\nIn 2007 The Judicial Proceedings Committee (Frosh was the Chairman) failed to bring to a vote <a href=\"https:\/\/mlis.state.md.us\/2007rs\/billfile\/sb0267.htm\">SB 267<\/a> &#8220;<span style=\"text-decoration: underline;\">the fact that a plaintiff may have been contributorily negligent may not bar recovery by the plaintiff<\/span>&#8221;   which means being contributorily negligent by just 1% a plaintiff can be bared from recovery of ANY AND ALL damages is still on the books and does come up on occasion.<\/p>\n<p>So apparently Frosh wants it both ways, no serious misdemeanor charges AND <a href=\"https:\/\/www.baltimorespokes.org\/article.php?story=20090726190123851\">no civil damages<\/a> either.  Not to mention in civil cases it is often the insurance that pays, not the driver. This is simply not right and in most states, drivers who kill can be charged with negligent homicide, if their driving is a flagrant violation of the duty to drive carefully\u2014even if there is no proof that the driver realized they might kill someone AND on top of that most states allow civil damages based on comparative negligence (or something similar.)  The loophole in Maryland is that there is no such crime and civil remedies are denied, is it any wounder that <a href=\"https:\/\/www.baltimorespokes.org\/article.php?story=20100903191950279\">The 2010 \u201cAllstate America\u2019s Best Drivers Report\u2122\u201d<\/a> has DC and Baltimore dead last? <\/p>\n<p><em>Note: I am sending this to Frosh to see if he would like to comment.<br \/>\n<b><a href=\"https:\/\/www.baltimorespokes.org\/article.php?story=20110328204234591\">If you want to take action this is our latest alert.<\/a><\/b><br \/>\n<\/em><br \/>\n<\/big><br \/>\n<!--more--><\/p>\n<hr \/>\n<p>Footnotes:<br \/>\n[1] <em> Continuing points about jail time:<\/em><br \/>\nnot to mention the fact that there has been a significant reduction in the jail population in Maryland over the past 2 years as a result of probation and parole &#8212; <br \/>\nnot to mention the fact that, using sentencing guidelines, a judge\/jury may not give any jail time or will say that it is suspended.<br \/>\nnot to mention the fact that &#8212; he is concerned about prosecutors&#8212;- does he not believe that a judge and jury (with clear jury instructions) will be fair<br \/>\nnot to mention the fact that people may not intend to kill someone but they do make intentional choices when they drive&#8212; on a cell and speeding 20 over the limit and run a red light.<\/p>\n<p>\nBaltimore Sun quotes:<br \/>\n<a href=\"https:\/\/weblogs.baltimoresun.com\/news\/traffic\/2011\/03\/aaa_lawmakers_seek_new_auto_ma.html\">https:\/\/weblogs.baltimoresun.com\/news\/traffic\/2011\/03\/aaa_lawmakers_seek_new_auto_ma.html<\/a><br \/>\n<a href=\"https:\/\/weblogs.baltimoresun.com\/news\/traffic\/2011\/03\/auto_manslaughter_bill_okd_by.html\">https:\/\/weblogs.baltimoresun.com\/news\/traffic\/2011\/03\/auto_manslaughter_bill_okd_by.html<\/a><\/p>\n<p>Washington Post quotes:<br \/>\n<a href=\"https:\/\/www.washingtonpost.com\/rw\/WashingtonPost\/Content\/Epaper\/2011-03-30\/Bx5.pdf\">A push for tougher vehicle-homicide penalties<\/a><\/p>\n<p><a href=\"https:\/\/mlis.state.md.us\/2011rs\/bills\/hb\/hb0363t.pdf\">House Bill (HB) 363<\/a><\/p>\n<p>oldId.20110330003205311<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Senator Frosh has been quoted in the paper saying some things that do not ring true about HB 363 and that needs to be addressed. Some quotes of Frosh in the Baltimore Sun and Washington Post, what the bill actually says and my comments: Frosh: Already approved by the House, a bill that would change &hellip; <\/p>\n<p class=\"link-more\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp.baltimorespokes.org\/?p=196907525\" class=\"more-link\">Continue reading<span class=\"screen-reader-text\"> &#8220;AAA supports HB 363 but Senator Frosh is not so sure (Manslaughter by Vehicle or Vessel &#8211; Criminal Negligence)&#8221;<\/span><\/a><\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":4,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"1","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[3],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-196907525","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-bike-laws"],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp.baltimorespokes.org\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts\/196907525","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp.baltimorespokes.org\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp.baltimorespokes.org\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp.baltimorespokes.org\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/users\/4"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp.baltimorespokes.org\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fcomments&post=196907525"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/wp.baltimorespokes.org\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts\/196907525\/revisions"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp.baltimorespokes.org\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fmedia&parent=196907525"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp.baltimorespokes.org\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fcategories&post=196907525"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp.baltimorespokes.org\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Ftags&post=196907525"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}